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Apophymator 10x by morphapoph Apophymator 10x by morphapoph
EDIT (12-June-01)

I've uploaded a "prototype" of a new Apophymator version. I recommend downloading this new version despite the "proto" in it's name. There is more info here:
[link]

EDIT (12-March-31): Important notice!

Apophymator is not usable with Apophysis 15C, up to hotfix 7, at least.

This [link] screenshot shows the input dialog in 7X 15C when Apophymator starts up.
There is nothing I can do... the problem is apparently the result of 7X's update to the Scripter Studio software used internally by all Apo versions. Apophymator 10x itself has not changed and still runs on other Apo versions, including 7X 15b.
(.....12-March-31 Edit end.)

.....
Use the download link for a zip file which includes the latest version of the Apophymator script for creating animation frames with Apophysis.
A pdf guide to using the script is included in the zip package along with the script itself.
The script is not so difficult to use as a large instruction guide might make it seem, but the pdf covers all of the input boxes and more, and is a general reference source for the script.
Apophymator is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 3.

Some of my journal entries contain information similar to what you see in the guide, but the guide is searchable and more convenient to use.

All of the support materials still need updating so the package contains the new script but the 10m version of the pdf.

I am still only running Windows XP so I haven't personally tested Apophymator under Vista or Windows 7.
With Windows XP the script works (for me) in all 2.08 and 2.09 versions as well as recent 7X versions starting at 14. The latest 7X version (15) provides complete script access to all flame values that may possibly be used to compose a flame. Earlier Apo versions may lack script support for flame elements like opacity or gamma threshold.
The script will warn you if any of your set of animating flames includes unavailable variations or plugins (no matter which Apo version you're running).

There are two major new features in this 10x version of Apophymator.

The first new feature is the option to include a "revolution segment" in between the interpolation (morph) of the flames used as keyframes.
For those familiar with Electric Sheep, this "revolution segment" would correspond to a "sheep loop".
However, with Apophymator you can choose between several different types of circular motion which determine the way the triangles revolve.
Alternatively, the revolution segment can be disabled while still applying the different types of circular motion to the interpolation of triangles producing the standard "morph" segment. An Apophymator morph segment would be equivalent to a "sheep edge".

In a revolution segment only the triangles from one flame create the animated movement of the image.
In a morph segment, all of the values of two flames are combined gradually and it is the "interpolation" of these two sets of flame values from the first flame to the second flame which creates the animated moving image.

Editing the script is required to use the new revolution features (in contrast to the script presenting "input dialogs").
But the edits are quite easy. They merely require changing between 0 or 1 according to which type of revolution should be disabled or enabled, respectively.

A text document named "Revolution-Motions_Settings_Draft" is in the Apophymator package.
It is mainly a duplication of the text from the following DA scrap link intended to illustrate the various types of circular movement that Apophymator will generate.
[link]
But the "Revolution-Motions_Settings' text document in the package also includes what the actual settings in Apophymator look like that produced each of those "maps" on that scrap page.

Almost forgot...
The second new change to Apophymator is the ability to use non-uniform time intervals for keyframe spacing.
This feature is slightly more difficult to use - it requires that the flames in your flame set possess a "time" value, which designates the frame number for that keyframe.
(The attribute is named "time" but I'm afraid that might be a little misleading - it's actually the frame number as I just indicated.)

This is more or less an "advanced" feature, although not that difficult once you get the hang of it.
I've yet to put together any info about the feature either. For now I'll just offer to answer any questions anyone may have about using the non-uniform intervals.

Aside from new features, I've generally tuned things up and there have been a few fixes that should actually have been released earlier.
So please upgrade to this latest version. The new features will simply be transparent and do not complicate the use of the script if you don't intend to use the features.
The input dialogs are all essentially the same as the 10m version.
Sorry to say I don't seem to be able to improve the "performance" of the script. That appears to stay just about the same no matter what I do.
But there's a lot I don't know about optimizing code.

Please enjoy using the script or...
alternatively, it would be helpful for me to know what it was about the script that you didn't like.
Notes about any specific problems or bugs usually help my progress with the script and are always welcome.
Add a Comment:
 
:iconabsolutec:
AbsoluteC Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2016
Thank you so much for this script , I was first trying with your last version I always got black frames , after 4 days of going crazy I finally found out the 10x ,it's working just great !
Reply
:iconperrelet:
perrelet Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2013
Greetings,

I have a workaround if you are wanting to use apophymator in either apo15C or later!

There is a program called "sizer" that allows you to resize windows using hotkeys.

The Good News: Sizer is able to resize the dialogue-box-from-hell scenario.
The Bad News: Even though the window is resized, the button and textbox contents do not move, making them invisible.
At first I thought this was a big deal, then I realised it isn't, here' why:

Let's face it, the values being entering into apophymator are very short. '0', '1', 'abc', 'flame1', '100', etc
Also everything that is entered is confirmed on the next screen.

Here's what to do:

1] Goto www.brianapps.net and download the latest version of sizer.
Note: Versions below 3.4 do not have 64-bit functionality.
At the point of writing this 3.4 is listed as incomplete, however it appears to be very stable.

2] Unzip sizer & run sizer.exe

3] Sizer runs in the background, however it also has a system tray icon for settings.
With sizer running you can right-click on the top bar of any window to resize it to prespecified dimensions ('Resize/reposition')
You can add your own by clicking 'Resize/reposition -> New Entry'.

4] Give your new entry a name.
Set the width and height to something reasonable (1080 x 1080) or something of the sort.
Change the 'Move To' option to 'Left'
Add a shortkey. For testing purposes do something simple like SHIFT+LEFT.

5] Open apo15D and run apophymator.
<Dialog-Box-From-Hell> appears.
Press SHIFT+LEFT
BING!

So as I said, this is a workaround, as the input box and buttons remain off the screen.
However, this really isn't a big deal.
The textbox is both highlighted and active by default, so you can type straight over the top.
To proceed: Enter = Ok, ESC = Cancel.
Simple.

Hope that helps,

Much Love!
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2013
Thanks for bringing the "sizer" program to my attention.
But I can't ask users or potential users to learn and become familiar with more than what is necessary for Apophymator to function correctly in versions of Apophysis 7X beyond 15b.

I've previously used a program similar to the "sizer" program you've mentioned.  It was some time ago, perhaps even back in the Win 98 era, perhaps later, but IIRC, the application performed for the most part according to its described functions.
I'm sorry I cannot recall the programs name, but again, thanks for suggesting the "sizer" program.  Perhaps it will help out with some other XP shortcomings... & so forth...

:wave: Peace be with you and yours... :wave:
Fred E
Reply
:icondanimyl:
danimyl Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2013
morphapoph,

I thank you so much for your script. I use it often. When I broke my Apophysis install this week and couldn't load scripts I was devastated. Now I have it working again, but I still haven't fixed a problem that has been haunting me the whole time I've used your program:

The rendering dialog boxes are all about 10000 pixels wide. This makes them very hard to use. Do you have any tips about repairing this? I've looked at the script itself to try to determine how I might adjust it but I'm really stuck. I'm on Win7 64 bit using Apo7x15C. I have python 2.7 installed. I don't know if that is influencing how these run in Apo.

I was very disappointed to find that i couldn't run the script in Apo 7X16. That was a dealbreaker for me. Your script is most of the reason I use Apo at all. Thanks so much for your work.

Dan
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2013
Hi Dan,

Because of certain changes made to 7X after version 15B, the script shows those wide dialog boxes.
I can't fix that and you'd have to approach the 7X author about that problem.  It's related to the TMS Scripter Studio software that supplies the scripting facility in Apophysis.
But the script works fine (for me & others) in Apophysis 7X 15B.
Also you could use these versions:
Apophysis 2.08 3d hack
Apophysis 2.09 JK

I had difficulty running Apophymator in the "official" version of Apophysis 2.09, but I gave up on that version long ago so I don't remember exactly what the problems were.
My most recent version of Apophymator is 12u - I think I put a note to that effect on the 10x page...
I believe 12 u is the best Apophymator version to use for all practical purposes.
That said, I noticed the other day that some animations I made with 10x seem to have been more appealing to me than results using 12u with the same keyframes.  Mainly though, what one sees is dependent on the flames used and settings used to generate the animation frames.  Essentially, my own preferences are due to my own sensitivities, other people see are bound to view what they see differently.  The sad part is that it takes way too much time to try to do a bunch of comparisons, of different potential flame animations, at least with the meager capabilities of my computers.

If you were disappointed by the failure of my script in 7X 16, imagine how I felt!
I was just floored.  I've worked so hard on the script just to see it become virtually obsolete - obsolete because people naturally move on the "next greatest" version of stuff that comes out.  So everyone moves to 7X 16, and due to reasons I can do nothing about, my script does not work in it.
I still use only Windows XP - which works absolutely great for what I want to do.  (Personally, I wish there had been a more linear development in the whole Windows platform rather than the way the OS developed into what it's become.)

Anyway... try using 7X 15B or one of those other two versions above that my script will run under.
Be very careful of any flames you might generate with 7X 15C, D or 16 because the script does not recognize the new coloring stuff nor does it work well with flames involving the "flatten" variation.

Try it that is, unless you've just completely thrown in the towel and you're disgusted with the whole flame animating regime, you could see if you could still get the results you could appreciate. 
I'm happy with what I can do with my script with all the versions it works with, though I've never shown much of what I produce.  I don't know what I'm waiting for...  I just have absolutely 0 "artistic" confidence.
But in my little life, I'm as happy as can be as long as I have a computer that will run XP since the Apophysis versions my script works with will run for as long as I do :-) ....

Also, I believe Apo 15 7B will run under Windows 7, even though it would only operate in 32 bit mode.
I can't test that because I don't run any 64 bit OS systems.

Oh and hmmm... I can't see how python could have anything at all to do with what happens in Apo.  There's another flame generator that uses python named "fr0st," but I don't know why that app would conflict with Delphi-based Apophysis and the Delphi-based script language.

Thanks so much for your endeavors to use my script!

Fred
Reply
:icondanimyl:
danimyl Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2014
I just started using 12u with 7x15b and it is working great. When I first saw an apo animation I said "I have to learn that" and I think I finally have a grasp on how to use it artistically. It's part of a larger piece I'm working on. I'll post any worthwhile results. Thanks for keeping it alive.
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Oct 29, 2014
& Thank YOU for trying the script!
:shifty: I'm happy to see ANY results. :shifty:

If you need help with the script let me know & I'll do my best to help you get a handle on what's unclear.
:peace:
Fred E.
Reply
:icondanimyl:
danimyl Featured By Owner Nov 11, 2014
It's very slow going but I'm steadily making progress on my animations. I'm very happy with 12. Thanks so much for your work.

Here's a little test shot just so you can get a sense of what I've got so far. danimyl.deviantart.com/art/Fra…
Reply
:icondanimyl:
danimyl Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2013
cancel that, my friend. I didn't know there was a version 12 out. Using this with 15b has solved the problem. Thanks again.
Reply
:iconjjeremiekika:
jjeremiekika Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013
Hi everybody !

First of all, I'm french so please excuse me for my faults in english ! :o)
I would ask for your help if you don't mind and if you can help me. I am just a beginner using apophysis and apophymator. My aim is to make fractal animations (video) so I first dowloaded Apophysis 2.09 on Windows 8 and I could make only .png or .jpg files. Somebody on another forum explained me that Apophymator was the best way to make fractals animations. So I found this webpage. I've read Morphamorph's tutorial for Apophymator 10 and downloaded the apophymator_x10_by_morphamorph...zip file.

I followed his instructions (very clear by the way, even for a not-native-english-speaker like me) and I managed to do what I could call a "render process" or "I've ran a script" but without any success. It just rendered a series of .png files. Maybe am I using Apophymator wrong ?

I don't know if I gave enough details so that you can understand my problem...but if anybody can help me, I would be grateful for ever ! I just try to understand how the process works. Maybe my skills in english or in computer science are insufficient ... ? :(

Hope reading somebody soon !
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013
The Apophymator script will only produce the individual image frames needed to create a video animation.
You need 3rd party software to convert the frames into a video (a process called "encoding").

I use an inexpensive program for the encoding called VideoMach: gromada.com/videomach/
There was a trialware version at one time...

There are many other encoding apps ranging from freeware to very expensive programs from Adobe and others.
A lot of people use a free program called VirtualDub but I have never used it.

A more recent version of Apophymator is here:
morphapoph.deviantart.com/art/…?

I am curious about the other forum where you found the info about Apophymator.
You're English is fine and I have no French so thank you for your effort to use English!

Fred
Reply
:iconlindelokse:
lindelokse Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2013   Digital Artist
another brief animation made with your script [link] thanks a lot :thanks:!
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2013
I am both happy :) and sad :( to see your animation.
I'm happy :) to see you use my script to make a very nice animation. :clap:
I'm sad :( because when I was a boy I crushed fireflies under my shoes to watch them glow on the sidewalk. :puke: It was a bad boy stunt in the Midwest USA. We also tried to keep fireflies in old plastic ice cream containers with holes in the top that we filled with grass and other greenery.
I wonder if there are still fireflies in the Midwest? I do not see any in California.
I am so pleased that you made the animation.
Did you use the 10x version? There is this ([link]) newer version available.
:thanks: Thank you for using my script. :thanks:
Reply
:iconlindelokse:
lindelokse Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2013   Digital Artist
[link] there you have it on deviantART too :) I think I used the 10x version, yes! I'll check your link right now, planning to make more videos soon now that I have a powerful enough pc ;)
I'm sure the fireflies have forgiven you for your deeds as a child :hug: your script can somehow bring them to life again it seems :)
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2013
Well, I dunno... there's a massive war against insects these days and I suppose whole swaths of them are not feeling so forgiving toward whatever is waging war on them.
At least I quit stomping on the bugs.
I'm being a bit of a card, sorry.

:woohoo: It's sweet you have a fast computer. :woohoo:
:happybounce: Gobs of kind thanks for using the script. :happybounce:

:fingerscrossed: Whishyu luck with your future anims. :fingerscrossed:
Reply
:iconlostwunderland:
LostWunderland Featured By Owner Aug 22, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Will this allow me to use depth, pitch and yaw settings still in my 3d fractals if I wanna animate them?
I tried flam3, but it didn't add my depth/pitch/yaw settings so it was a flat image
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Sep 1, 2012
Hi, yes the script will handle the 3D camera settings and many other Apo flame parameters that flam3 doesn't.
But you should get the latest version 12 of the script (currently 12d) because some things have been fixed and others improved, most importantly the input dialogs.
[link]

I call the 12 series scripts "beta" but they've been more tested than the 10x version.

I hope you are able to enjoy the script. :)
Thank you for your interest!
Reply
:iconlostwunderland:
LostWunderland Featured By Owner Sep 7, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
okay thank you so much for answering.
Reply
:icongraphiclia:
GraphicLia Featured By Owner May 16, 2012
:wave: Here goes something! Thanks!! A 23 page guide :iconfaintsplz:
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner May 16, 2012
Unfortunately the pdf is kind of shabby. I think I've probably made using the script *appear* to be much harder than it is.
On the positive side, images of dialog boxes take up most of the space in those 23 pages. :)

Even so, updating the pdf and other associated info is what's holding back a new Apophymator release.
The script itself is essentially ready to go.
Reply
:icongraphiclia:
GraphicLia Featured By Owner May 16, 2012
Did you mark up the changes to the original PDF or make in-line comments in the script that I could help incorporate into a new document. I have Word 2007 which can be finalized as a PDF.
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner May 17, 2012
Oh heck no. I'm not even close to being that organized. I haven't really looked at the pdf since I uploaded it. The script has been downloaded a lot but I don't see that it's used very much. So I lose interest - not in the script itself but in presenting it for public use. OTOH, I feel badly that I haven't updated the script for the sake of people who find it useful.
Thanks for your offer, but I also need to update most of the illustrations.
I use Lotus Word Pro (the last pre-IBM version), which works good enough. And I have a very simple app I found called "PrintFile" from 2007 that converts to pdf.
It's mainly just lack of motivation that's stalling me.
But you also can't do much about that.
Reply
:icongraphiclia:
GraphicLia Featured By Owner May 17, 2012
I used to use Lotus and WordPerfect since that was the industry standard in IBM shops in the early '80's but switched over to MS Office because that was the standard on the other side of the fence - the commercial/goverment user environment.

Where might I find a definitive guide on scripting syntax? I read that it's Pascal. :?
Specifically I'd like to know what "random" returns - 12 digits to the right of the decimal? What does "trunc" do and can you specify a control string? Is there a round up/down/"three/quarter" function?

The PDF read well and easily. Now to sit down and practice! ;)
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner May 17, 2012
My first computer purchase in 1998 included Lotus 123. But I don't have much use for office software. I got the "Millenium" version myself later because it was comparatively cheap but I still only use 123 and WP on rare occasions.

So far the best guide I know of for Apo's script language was done by "Datagram" many years ago. [link]
Be careful though: some material is misleading and in a few cases, just plain wrong, IIRC.

That guide mostly covers language elements specific to Apo. But the scripter can also use all kinds of native Delphi language elements.
I'm not real certain about the difference between pascal and Delphi.
But I've used a lot of Delphi references while learning how to do Apo scripts, including Embarcadaro's Delphi support pages. A simpler guide is here:
[link]

Now, there is a lot of stuff, even on that simple page, that is not available in the Apo scripter. In addition, the scripter software has simplified some tasks, so, for instance, formal declarations are not usually necessary.

For your specific questions:
Not sure how many digits "random" returns, but I think it's the max for "double" type floating point values, 16 or 17, I believe.
btw, early on, I learned a lot of stuff directly from the scripter itself with little pieces of code like the two lines below, which simply "prints" the random number generated into the bottom scripter pane:

num := random;
print(FloatToStr(num));

I guess "write" is already reserved for some other function - the 'print' command doesn't involve your printer. :)

The command 'trunc' simply chops off the decimal part of a rational number.

The "round" command rounds to the closest whole number. In the case of exact .5 values, the result is the even whole number.

There is also RoundTo, which I just learned a few weeks ago:

num := RoundTo(random, -5);
print(floatToStr(num));

Check out the Delphi link above for your other questions. It's been more help to me than any other source for native Delphi stuff.

Script functions and terms implemented by Apo developers are a different story.
You have to figure those out yourself, from other scripts or from Apo source code.

You're welcome to ask me too, but DA is not a very good vehicle for discussions about script code.
An email address for me is always available in my scripts in semi-munged form.
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:icongraphiclia:
GraphicLia Featured By Owner May 17, 2012
The Delphi link is very good. I think I found what I was looking for. Float to String then String to Currency in order to shorten returns from Random to four decimal places. *one way to skin a cat*
Hmmm...
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner May 18, 2012
You will see functions at that site that are not available in the Apo scripter. The Apo script implementation doesn't include the "StrUtils" unit. You can use a lot, but not all, of what's in the System, SysUtils and Math units. There's other math stuff you can use too, which comes through Windows units, I guess.
For instance, those pages don't list arctan2(y,x), but I use it all the time in scripts.
Below are links to a couple of official ("Embarcadaro") Delphi pages with info on the SysUtils and Math units. The docs are for the latest Delphi release so lots of what you see surely won't reflect what you can do with Apo scripts.
I haven't found any harm in trying though. I just see some type of error message that something is unsupported or unrecognized.
Anyway... here you go:
[link]
[link]

ummm, you don't need to use StringToCurrency...

This shortens a random number to four decimal places; :
answer := RoundTo(random, -4);

"-4" is the number of decimal places - actually the power of 10, I think, because positive numbers are usable. A 1 would round to "10s", 2 to "100s", etc.
Reply
:icongraphiclia:
GraphicLia Featured By Owner May 17, 2012
Thank you! I will check those links now since Apo is tied up rendering ;)
Reply
:iconboot-cheese-3000:
boot-cheese-3000 Featured By Owner Feb 5, 2012
thanx a bunch. i've heard of Virutal Dub before a couple years back in relation to fractal animations but never got a chance to download it. now i keep hearing about it. i'm kinda confused as to which version to download for my desktop which is a 64 and with Windows 7. 1.9.10, 1.9.11 or 1.10.1?
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2012
I'm sorry that I'm unable to help you with Virtual Dub as I've never used it. Several times recently I've seen some simple instructions for using it posted at fractalforums.com
Try searching there... or even joining the forum and asking for help with it. Or search the web in general (also try using "VirtualDub", with no space).
I know there is a 15 day trial of VideoMach. (It used to be that you could still make videos, but they would have a watermark after the trial period. Last I looked it still worked that way.)
VideoMach is the only app I've used for encoding animtions from frames. I'm not sure what it costs now, but it's always been fairly cheap compared to other pro apps that cost 100s of bucks. My older version 4 of VideoMach was like, $30... and I've always been satisfied with it. Actually when I was first looking myself it was more of a case of not wanting to learn how to use VirtualDub even though it has the best price of all.
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:iconboot-cheese-3000:
boot-cheese-3000 Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2012
yeah--FREE.99!!!!!!:lmao: who could complain about that?

if that's the case i'll stick with VirtualDub since i've heard about it a couple years ago. i don't want animation with some stinkin' watermark. i think i joined fractaforums but if i didn't i will now, i was planning on going there to learn Mandelbulb3D.
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2012
My main reason for mentioning the trialware is that I thought it could help you get an idea of encoding frames into an animation if you haven't done that before.
For posting publicly, yeah I certainly agree, watermarks tend to ruin animations.

VirtualDub seems have a widespread user base and it probably has a dedicated forum somewhere. So beyond cost, it could also be a better choice for you if you're a willing learner.

...FractalForums is more or less the mother site of M3D - there are still a lot of developments happening daily.
I've registered there but I still mainly do Apo stuff, so I've been a bit timid about posting anything to FF yet.
Reply
:iconboot-cheese-3000:
boot-cheese-3000 Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2012
i'm gonna concentrate on Apophysis 1st with the animations. i would love to try that with Mandelbulb3D but since i don't know how it works i'm gonna take baby steps as far as animating with that. i was viewing a few tuts here and there and 1 looked pretty good but it appeared as if the version he used of Mandelbulb3D was old. it kept talking about FOVy and a couple other things that aren't on the new version and when i fucked up on a script i decided to just stop it and start over another day. this is gonna be a bit more confusing than i thought.

i've signed up with the forum but am waiting for authorization so i can't ask any questions about anything at the moment. guess they're busy working on the new version so they can break us off some tips and tricks and tuts. the other Mandelbulb3D groups on dA don't have very many tuts, just mainly parameters to give you. that sucks, i would like a tutorial to go with that or something.:laughing:
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:iconboot-cheese-3000:
boot-cheese-3000 Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2012
thanx a bunch, i've really wanted to animate fractals for a looooooooooong time and seeing :iconmynameishalo: work has given me the inspiration i needed again. all i kept seeing was GIFs, which were nice but not enough for me. all it was was a teaser. is there a newer version of apophymator out there and do i need to use any other animation program besides apophymator?
Reply
:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Feb 5, 2012
Yeah for sure, he did a bunch of really nice anims - I wish he would do more!
The most up to date version of Apophymator is the one available on this page. I'm (very slowly) getting the next version ready.
The script will produce a series of numbered frames. You will need some other software application to encode those frames into an animation. Lot's of people use "VirtualDub" which is free: [link]

I use a relatively inexpensive app named "VideoMach" [link]
Reply
:iconseanwendt:
seanwendt Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hi, thanks for creating this, I've been using Exper's script for a few of my first animations, and look forward to trying this. I will probably have some interesting feature requests for you :) I'm definitely interested in seeing what having an ability to define # of frames per keyframe will allow me creatively.
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:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Feb 1, 2012
I spent the past few hours experimenting and it appears that flam3 does follow the explicit values in the time= fields in parameters. It doesn't matter if they are evenly spaced or not. And flam3 also does use "smooth" (spline) interpolation even with any non-uniform keyframe time values.
Though Apophymator doesn't create the exact same animation when using the same keyframes and times as flam3, all keyframe transitions occur at the same points in the anims I made in quick tests with each of them.
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:iconseanwendt:
seanwendt Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for all the info. This feature will become handy to me, as I am doing a lot of choreographing of music with it, and if something is not timed right, it should be easy to go in and just add or remove frames to correct misalignment.

One feature that might be cool is something that can pick up a job where it left off. Programmatically, one way I thought might be easy is to just keep an index # in a file that contains a unique job identifier and gets updated after it completes each frame. I ran into this issue this morning, my RAID volume degraded and OS crashed mid-job, so I have to figure out how to get it to start where it left off. I assume it shouldn't be that hard anyway, but taking the guesswork out is always nice.

Cheers,
Sean
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:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Feb 5, 2012
I don't ever try to synchronize anims with music. I'm afraid Apophymator may not meet your expectations, especially with respect to adding or removing just a few frames for better audio-video alignment.
The next script version does include an option to start at a particular keyframe - but not at a particular frame number... at least not yet.

I'm just finishing up an animation that uses non-uniform kf intervals.
It's a two-pane animation, one pane shows the flam3 rendering and the other shows the Apophymator version.
They're mostly similar although some flame elements move differently and the colorings are not completely the same. I'll post them to YT in a few hours.
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:iconseanwendt:
seanwendt Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Cool.

Re: starting @ a particular frame number, can you think of the best way to deal with this problem then? (The problem is the job was not finished, about 80% completed with rendering images but it was like a 6-day job so I need to figure out a way to start it where it left off).
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:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2012
Oh I forgot earlier...
The script will ordinarily start numbering frames at 0. But you'd want to use option f in the first script dialog to change the numbering so it starts with the frame number your new beginning keyframe had - or should have had - in the prior run that crashed.
Say you had set up 100 frames between all keyframes. Then, in terms of the flame set from the example below you'd want to start the numbering at 300 for those flames rearranged into the order: d > e > a > b > c.

Hmmm... I also just remembered the script will just keep running once it reaches frames starting with keyframe 'a', and those would be frames you already rendered.
I'm afraid you'll just have to keep an eye on the progress for now.

For the future I can add a "last frame" option - it's tons easier than adding a "first frame" option (I think).
The updated version of the script will only have a "first segment" option. The "first frame" option would take a while for me to figure out.
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:iconseanwendt:
seanwendt Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks so much for the information and the examples -- they're really what makes understanding easier. I'm going to try to figure some things out -- what confuses is me is the idea that there is my original flame file, and then I thought the script creates a new flame file with flames for each frame, and renders from that, and keeps track of the settings in some other file.

The reason this is important is because, while I could just re-run the script with a re-ordered original flame file, I don't remember all of the the exact parameters I chose on the first run, such as quality, interpolation type, etc.. and I want the renders to be consistent obviously.

What do you think about my suggestion of adding some kind of feature which creates a job model -- a text file that contains a job id, the settings for that job, the last successful rendered frame #, and a completion flag?
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:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Feb 9, 2012
This reply got rather long, but maybe the details will help.
An aside: yesterday it was my VM that crashed wiping out a reply I'd just about finished. It was nearly as long. :(
Forging ahead once again though... I'm assuming you have your original flame file that contains the keyframes. Without those flames the case is hopeless.

If you have not run Apophymator since your system crashed then most of the settings from your interrupted rendering attempt should be saved.
The main exception would be where you saved the rendered frames. But I'm sure you know that anyway.
The rest of the settings you used would be in a file named "Amator-10m-Settings.param". (I just forgot to change the 10m in the name to 10x for the current version.) That file is refreshed every time you run Apophymator with the settings you use and it will be in your Apo directory. Despite the "param" extension of the file it's just a text file that you can open in Notepad or whatever you use for a text editor.
The settings aren't exactly explicit. But they use the same numeric representations that you would see in the script dialogs for making choices. (The settings are also explained in the .pdf file included with the script package.)
If you can't figure out the settings from the ".param" file I could help. You'd have to send me a copy of that file or just paste the contents in a note to me. It's only about 30 lines.

Apophymator also produces something like the "job model" text file you suggest. This is a second file generated by the script and it would be in the same directory as the rendered frames. Unfortunately in the case of a computer crash this file isn't produced.
The file is usually saved when a rendering job finishes normally, or when the script is stopped manually by the user.
The name of this info file ends with "_AnimReport.txt" and it's prefixed with the name you specify in the "Save" dialog when you start a rendering job. All of the settings you used for that particular frame rendering job are listed at the bottom of that text file... in plain English, more or less.

The info also contains the Apo version the frames were rendered with and the version of the Apophymator script used.
It includes the name of the original flame file with the keyframes and the specific flames in that file were used for keyframes in the order they were used.
You should be able to find the last frame that was rendered before the crash by looking in the directory where the rendered frames were saved. The last frame rendered will have the highest number at the end.
I'm not sure what you mean by a "completion flag".

It would help me to know whether you used a fixed interval of frames between keyframes or if you experimented with different numbers of frames between keys?

Oh, I should mention that Apophymator doesn't precalculate all of the frame parameters unless that option is explicitly chosen by the user.
Ordinarily flame parameters for each frame are saved at the same time the frame image is rendered - assuming the option for saving the parameters is enabled.
But you can set Apophymator up to calculate and save the entire collection of frame parameters without rendering the images. The frame images can then be rendered later from the full parameter set. I use a separate script for rendering batches like that but I don't remember if it's available somewhere publicly.

Hope I didn't try to cover too much territory all at once.
Thanks for your patient interest. :)
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:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2012
There are two possibilities.
The first is to rearrange the flames you used for keyframes into a new file so that the first flame in the new file is the one that began the segment which was being rendered at the time of the crash.

So, if you were doing an anim with keyframes a > b > c > d > e, and the last rendered frame was between d and e, your new file would be: d > e > a > b > c.
I would make a copy of the file that originally has the keyframes. Then open that new flame file in Notepad. Cut the first three flames from the top of the file and paste them into the bottom after keyframe five.

Make sure that you don't get something like this when you paste:
</flame><flame name="...>
You want the </flame> part on a line its own line and <flame name=....> on the next line.
Save the file.

If you used non-uniform time intervals you would also have to adjust the time="" fields in the new flame order somehow.
What is important is to have the same total number of keyframes as you used in the first attempt and that the sequencing corresponds even thought the first flame key has changed.
Maybe that's obvious??

The second possibility is that you could beta test my unreleased version and try to use the feature for setting the first keyframe I previously described. :)
I've been testing it but I can't really cover all of the possibilities combinations of other settings might produce.
I also haven't included the convenience of an input box for setting arbitrary first keyframes. You would have to manually edit the script; which isn't a big deal though... just matter of changing one number.
The caveat for the second choice is that I may have changed some things that cause animations to be generated somewhat differently. I did fix a few bugs too though.
If you're in a hurry, your best option is probably the first one. Try a small render size and check the first few results to see if you're getting about what you want. Try that again at a normal size before you commit to finishing.
Those are my two-penny suggestions anyway. :D
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:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2012
Hi,
I'm grateful for Exper's scripts because they were very important learning tools for me and I always found they worked well.
Hmmm... not really sure but I think you could modify the time= values in the parameter file Exper's script produces to make flam3 render an anim with varied #s of frames between keyframes.
It's something I've been meaning to check but I keep forgetting.
Flam3 might limit you to using linear interpolation with irregular keyframe intervals - that's one thing I want to figure out.
My script allows both linear ("Normal") and spline ("Catmull-Rom") interpolation whether the number of frames is uniform or not.
Probably you shouldn't use extreme differences - like one segment with 180 frames and the next with 8. That's also something I haven't really looked at carefully in Apophymator. I mainly just think it would be kind of weird to do... 8 frames is only about 1/3 of a second after encoding. Changing from flame to flame that fast doesn't seem like it would work so well.
At least to me. :shrug:
I'm anxious to hear any requests. :-) I've about run out of things to do with the script.
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:iconmihalyk:
MihalyK Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2012
Am looking forward to trying out this script. Will let you know as best I can about my experiences. Thanks very much for your work! Great program Apophysis as well. BTW have you any insight or familiarity with the MutatorKammer program? So far, noone has been forthcoming with any advice or help about its use.

Keep going, and again, thanks.
MK
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:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2012
Yes please, let me know what you think of the script!
I'm only aware of MutatorKammer but I've never used it. I do know that the person who wrote the app hangs out at fractalforums.com
A quick search shows a bunch of posts about MK there, but most of them seem to be at least several years old. If you ask about MK at FractalForums I'm certain someone will try to help. :)

I would be glad to help you with my script too if you need some tips.
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:iconmihalyk:
MihalyK Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2014
 As far as I can ascertain, MK hasn't been either updated nor mantioned as far as help with documentation and stuff goes.
 Since I last mentioned it, I have only found one video produced with it, I think by who I assume to be it's author, who is also they guy who runs FractalForums.
 I know he is pretty busy now with that, and as far as I can tell no-one else is using it, or at least noone has mentioned much of it in the forums as far as I can determine.

 It might be that there are better programs that do much the same thing, or that the problem with downloading seems to trigger an AnitVirus message, although, as far as I can tell, it contians no virus.

 I haven't used it much since it requires more desktop real-estate than I have (it goes off the edge of the screen)
 and as I said before documentation is pretty thin on the ground.

 I am guessing that those users who do use it more or less know what they are doing (it's highly technical) so don''t need documentation.

 Perhaps there is more documentation to be found elsewhere?
 I had thought of contacting Kleinaus, but I can't be sure he is the person to go to?

 Anyway thanks for the response, and apologies for the late reply (what has it been, over three years?!) really, sorry!

 Mihaly.
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:iconmorphapoph:
morphapoph Featured By Owner Feb 1, 2014
Yes the FF owner is that guy... His name is Christian and his ongoing project for a while has been producing video presentations about fractals.  I am sorry to say I haven't watched any of them but I think they're probably very good.  He seems to be well educated about fractals and from descriptions I've seen he tries to make his videos enjoyable and worthwhile.  I think he may lack the production equipment he'd like to accomplish the ambitious aspiration he has to present the ever-mysterious interweaving of math, art, and science/technology, to a "general" audience.  I appreciate his enthusiasm and respect his understanding of fractals.
But I seem to remember remarks he's made to the effect that MK was mostly a thing of the past.
Another FF participant named Sockratease (sp?) does still apparently use the MK program at least some images have been posted here and there, and that user has talked about MK.

Sure, I think anyway, you should drop Christian a note - I think called "private message" at FF.  CK has always seemed a quite personable host of FF and if you just ask a few basic questions about MK he'd probably be able to say where to pick up some info.  Or not, maybe, because there isn't any.

Three years ago?  Hahah!  I din't even look.  I just saw a message and wanted to answer it.
CK has done LOTS of videos since then.

... It's going to be easiest to talk with the FF folks if you become a member, probably.
Just for the record, the website has it's weird operational kinks - a few things like navigating problems.
But I haven't experienced any problems that I can connect with becoming a member of Fractal Forums.

The current programs of primary interest at FF, for good reason, are the more modern 3D "Mandelbulb" programs.  I use "Mandelbrot3D" but there are others, with "Mandelbroter" being probably the most similar to M3D in capability and output.
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:iconmihalyk:
MihalyK Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2014
Hey thanks for the response...  I originally became interested in Mk because of the potential for generating images in a multitude of ways, in particular the genetic algorithm.
  It's just so complicated to use, and I get overwhelmed with all the functionality.

 I saw one anim that I believe Christian posted but it was quite a while ago, and I haven't been able to see others. I have watched most of his spin-off tutorials and they are all quite good as well as entertaining ( I think he has a wonderful sense of humour - especially one vid where he "grows his hair" during the show - a real laugh.
 Apparantly he has just posted another one, too, which focuses mainly on the mandelbrot.
 Lastly I don't know where to obtain the new X-fractal formula, is it available for MB3D? Really Excellent program that one, and many may overlook the 2D capabilities of the program, since usually it is expected to do 3D. I had posted a bunch of anims and the M3A files somewhere on DA in fact, but I seem to be really unorganised - ought to spend more time re-organising but I mainly waste my time doodling around with MB3D.

 I have also played with MandelBulber, which is pretty cool in it's own way, I just find MB3D slightly easier to navigate (both the UI and the 3D navigator.

 I don't have access to Ultrafractal, but really I prefer to try to remain with open source stuff, and have enjoyed JWildfire, Apophysis and it's variants and chaotica - but the latter seems to be rather busy on my system, would like some help files for that proggy also.

 as you suggest, I will post to Christian on FF regarding the MK program, and thanks once again for your feedback. Please feel free to comment on my few works in DA, I'm grateful for any feedback.
cheers
Mk
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:iconnosebleedboy:
NosebleedBoy Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2012
I should also add that I entered 48 for the number of frames between keyframes. Might that be the problem?
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